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SP seizing assets to pay fines

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Rich

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I'd like to know if this is possible right now through the current warrant system OOCly.
 

K3V

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As far as i'm aware its not currently possible however i'll tag it for testers as they might be able to give more insight.
 

Giga

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Re: [TESTER] SP seizing assets to pay fines

I have no idea what a "warrant system" is. Can you explain further?
 

Donuts

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Re: [TESTER] SP seizing assets to pay fines

Rich said:
I'd like to know if this is possible right now through the current warrant system OOCly.

When an officer comes to collect a fine you DO NOT pay that officer personally. You use the script command to pay the cash. That cash then gets straight deposited into the SASP Faction Bank. That's how the current warrant system works under any type of fines.
 

SledneckNewfie

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Re: [TESTER] SP seizing assets to pay fines

This would be against the server rules, as you cannot force a player to give their assets. The only items they can force you to script-wise transfer would be money, drugs, weapons and other similar items. Houses, businesses, and vehicles are among those which cannot be taken from you without your consent.

The only way they can have you pay the fine is with currency, In this case cash. How you go about paying it is not up to them, they can only persuade you to pay it sooner, and if you continue to leave the fine unpaid, once it reaches $10,000(I think) they may then arrest you. They may not force you to give any assets to cover for that fine.

The only time they may take assets(RPly, not scriptwise) is if they close your house or business as a crime scene, for a murder as example. However in this case they still may not force you to give them the house scriptwise, they can make an OOC agreement with you, for an allotted amount of time that you may not use the house(As you wouldn't be allowed in the property while it undergoes investigation), and /movein an officer involved in the investigation so they have access to it. But they cannot make you give them the house ownership, and it is entirely at your discretion if you wish to /movein them.

In any case, noone can ever force you to give them your business, house, or car, unless you personally made them an OOC promise on something like a loan for example. (If you borrowed 1m from someone, and you chose to put your house as collateral, and then didn't pay them back after the agreed amount of time given. They can have an admin transfer your house to them, otherwise you would be scamming 1m from them by not paying it back.)
 

K3V

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Re: [TESTER] SP seizing assets to pay fines

SledneckNewfie said:
This would be against the server rules, as you cannot force a player to give their assets. The only items they can force you to script-wise transfer would be money, drugs, weapons and other similar items. Houses, businesses, and vehicles are among those which cannot be taken from you without your consent.

The only way they can have you pay the fine is with currency, In this case cash. How you go about paying it is not up to them, they can only persuade you to pay it sooner, and if you continue to leave the fine unpaid, once it reaches $10,000(I think) they may then arrest you. They may not force you to give any assets to cover for that fine.

The only time they may take assets(RPly, not scriptwise) is if they close your house or business as a crime scene, for a murder as example. However in this case they still may not force you to give them the house scriptwise, they can make an OOC agreement with you, for an allotted amount of time that you may not use the house(As you wouldn't be allowed in the property while it undergoes investigation), and /movein an officer involved in the investigation so they have access to it. But they cannot make you give them the house ownership, and it is entirely at your discretion if you wish to /movein them.

In any case, noone can ever force you to give them your business, house, or car, unless you personally made them an OOC promise on something like a loan for example. (If you borrowed 1m from someone, and you chose to put your house as collateral, and then didn't pay them back after the agreed amount of time given. They can have an admin transfer your house to them, otherwise you would be scamming 1m from them by not paying it back.)

Sorry gues i didn't get the memo that RC-RP is a light roleplay server right?

To sum up in laymans terms what you've literally just said is that -NOBODY- can via -IC- means seize someones assets such as vehicles, houses etc etc as a penalty for their -IC- actions without the players -OOC- consent. You've just given the entire server permission to willingly power-game, mixing an OOC aspect with IC, let that sink in for a moment?

What Rich has suggested or should i say inquired about is i the SA-SP an -IC- faction can take items from players who simply fail to pay a very simple and in most cases small amounted fine, without consequence of their actions tell me what is the point in having that system or crime in place?

With regards to you saying "RP'ly wise not scriptwise" once again why would someone own the house OOC'ly if they didn't own it IC'ly? The logic you're trying to get across is simply baffling. If they don't own an object IC'ly they shouldn't own it OOC'ly, thats like the argument of "whats on you is on you" sure its weapons but the statement stands. If you have the house on your account you own it IC'ly.

Edit:

He by no means meant that we would simply remove their assets without fair and proper process naturally we would do it through the courts giving accounts of multiple chances to pay, or multiple arrests still without payment.
 

Rich

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Re: [TESTER] SP seizing assets to pay fines

Pretty much what K3V said. Fellas be running around with 400k fines and there's nothing we can do to make them pay or make em sweat.
 

SledneckNewfie

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Re: [TESTER] SP seizing assets to pay fines

K3V said:
SledneckNewfie said:
This would be against the server rules, as you cannot force a player to give their assets. The only items they can force you to script-wise transfer would be money, drugs, weapons and other similar items. Houses, businesses, and vehicles are among those which cannot be taken from you without your consent.

The only way they can have you pay the fine is with currency, In this case cash. How you go about paying it is not up to them, they can only persuade you to pay it sooner, and if you continue to leave the fine unpaid, once it reaches $10,000(I think) they may then arrest you. They may not force you to give any assets to cover for that fine.

The only time they may take assets(RPly, not scriptwise) is if they close your house or business as a crime scene, for a murder as example. However in this case they still may not force you to give them the house scriptwise, they can make an OOC agreement with you, for an allotted amount of time that you may not use the house(As you wouldn't be allowed in the property while it undergoes investigation), and /movein an officer involved in the investigation so they have access to it. But they cannot make you give them the house ownership, and it is entirely at your discretion if you wish to /movein them.

In any case, noone can ever force you to give them your business, house, or car, unless you personally made them an OOC promise on something like a loan for example. (If you borrowed 1m from someone, and you chose to put your house as collateral, and then didn't pay them back after the agreed amount of time given. They can have an admin transfer your house to them, otherwise you would be scamming 1m from them by not paying it back.)

Sorry gues i didn't get the memo that RC-RP is a light roleplay server right?

To sum up in laymans terms what you've literally just said is that -NOBODY- can via -IC- means seize someones assets such as vehicles, houses etc etc as a penalty for their -IC- actions without the players -OOC- consent. You've just given the entire server permission to willingly power-game, mixing an OOC aspect with IC, let that sink in for a moment?

What Rich has suggested or should i say inquired about is i the SA-SP an -IC- faction can take items from players who simply fail to pay a very simple and in most cases small amounted fine, without consequence of their actions tell me what is the point in having that system or crime in place?

With regards to you saying "RP'ly wise not scriptwise" once again why would someone own the house OOC'ly if they didn't own it IC'ly? The logic you're trying to get across is simply baffling. If they don't own an object IC'ly they shouldn't own it OOC'ly, thats like the argument of "whats on you is on you" sure its weapons but the statement stands. If you have the house on your account you own it IC'ly.

Edit:

He by no means meant that we would simply remove their assets without fair and proper process naturally we would do it through the courts giving accounts of multiple chances to pay, or multiple arrests still without payment.

As of right now that is what I understand of the rules, you cannot force someone to give you anything over $50,000. By taking away their house or business for a fine which costs far less, I find it unfair to the player. Whether they're refusing to pay a fine or not, it would give players another reason to be frustrated at the SASP. Personally, if I have an unpaid fine for 40,000$, and I refuse to pay it. I'm not going to allow them to take away my 10 million dollar house.

Whether you say they won't or not, if the SASP are allowed to take peoples assets for someone not paying a fine, a lot of people will end up angry, and others will likely leave the server. What does taking someones asset benefit to the SASP? Nothing, they just get their money. How does having an asset taken away affect a player? They lose hundreds of thousands, or even millions depending on the cost of the asset. And depending on who it is, probably lose the motivation to log on the server because of how hard they worked for the asset.

I suggest to those wanting a way to force people to pay them, to make a suggestion that will force people to pay fines, like have a system in place that allows the SASP make them pay it. As an example, if someone has a fine over 75,000, it will force them to pay a portion of that fine from each payday, out of their bank. But forcing someone to give up an asset that costs far more than a fine, which could possibly even be a business or house that their faction evolves around, is too much.

If there is a discussion on a suggestion that allows the SASP to remove assets through a proper process in the courts, and people are infact given enough chances to prevent the loss of said asset and they still refuse to pay it, good and well knowing they will lose their asset if they continue to refuse to pay the fine. I would agree to that, but for right now the rules are what they are.
 

K3V

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Re: [TESTER] SP seizing assets to pay fines

SledneckNewfie said:
As of right now that is what I understand of the rules, you cannot force someone to give you anything over $50,000. By taking away their house or business for a fine which costs far less, I find it unfair to the player. Whether they're refusing to pay a fine or not, it would give players another reason to be frustrated at the SASP. Personally, if I have an unpaid fine for 40,000$, and I refuse to pay it. I'm not going to allow them to take away my 10 million dollar house.

Whether you say they won't or not, if the SASP are allowed to take peoples assets for someone not paying a fine, a lot of people will end up angry, and others will likely leave the server. What does taking someones asset benefit to the SASP? Nothing, they just get their money. How does having an asset taken away affect a player? They lose hundreds of thousands, or even millions depending on the cost of the asset. And depending on who it is, probably lose the motivation to log on the server because of how hard they worked for the asset.

I suggest to those wanting a way to force people to pay them, to make a suggestion that will force people to pay fines, like have a system in place that allows the SASP make them pay it. As an example, if someone has a fine over 75,000, it will force them to pay a portion of that fine from each payday, out of their bank. But forcing someone to give up an asset that costs far more than a fine, which could possibly even be a business or house that their faction evolves around, is too much.

If there is a discussion on a suggestion that allows the SASP to remove assets through a proper process in the courts, and people are infact given enough chances to prevent the loss of said asset and they still refuse to pay it, good and well knowing they will lose their asset if they continue to refuse to pay the fine. I would agree to that, but for right now the rules are what they are.

You are once again suggesting that this should or will become an OOC issue which quite frankly it isn't nor should it be.

If people are that OOC'ly attached to an asset or money then there is seriously something going wrong it should be about roleplay not cash or assets, sure they're nice to have however the roleplay i have to say is the solid preference seen as thats what this is based on.

Your account of "people owning 1mill houses" surely those who own these houses have enough funding to pay the damn fine? How on earth do they own a 1mill house and lack the funds to pay the IC fine, they don't!
 

SledneckNewfie

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Re: [TESTER] SP seizing assets to pay fines

K3V said:
SledneckNewfie said:
As of right now that is what I understand of the rules, you cannot force someone to give you anything over $50,000. By taking away their house or business for a fine which costs far less, I find it unfair to the player. Whether they're refusing to pay a fine or not, it would give players another reason to be frustrated at the SASP. Personally, if I have an unpaid fine for 40,000$, and I refuse to pay it. I'm not going to allow them to take away my 10 million dollar house.

Whether you say they won't or not, if the SASP are allowed to take peoples assets for someone not paying a fine, a lot of people will end up angry, and others will likely leave the server. What does taking someones asset benefit to the SASP? Nothing, they just get their money. How does having an asset taken away affect a player? They lose hundreds of thousands, or even millions depending on the cost of the asset. And depending on who it is, probably lose the motivation to log on the server because of how hard they worked for the asset.

I suggest to those wanting a way to force people to pay them, to make a suggestion that will force people to pay fines, like have a system in place that allows the SASP make them pay it. As an example, if someone has a fine over 75,000, it will force them to pay a portion of that fine from each payday, out of their bank. But forcing someone to give up an asset that costs far more than a fine, which could possibly even be a business or house that their faction evolves around, is too much.

If there is a discussion on a suggestion that allows the SASP to remove assets through a proper process in the courts, and people are infact given enough chances to prevent the loss of said asset and they still refuse to pay it, good and well knowing they will lose their asset if they continue to refuse to pay the fine. I would agree to that, but for right now the rules are what they are.

You are once again suggesting that this should or will become an OOC issue which quite frankly it isn't nor should it be.

If people are that OOC'ly attached to an asset or money then there is seriously something going wrong it should be about roleplay not cash or assets, sure they're nice to have however the roleplay i have to say is the solid preference seen as thats what this is based on.

Your account of "people owning 1mill houses" surely those who own these houses have enough funding to pay the damn fine? How on earth do they own a 1mill house and lack the funds to pay the IC fine, they don't!

It's not that they lack the money to pay a fine, it's that they're refusing to pay a fine. If someone can't afford to pay a fine, why would the SASP take away their assets? Rather than help them find an alternate way to pay it. If someone is refusing to pay the fine, is when they should take an asset. Just because someone has an expensive asset doesn't mean they have the funds, if the SP can prove someone has the funds to pay a fine, but are refusing to pay a fine, then it could be brought to the courts if something is done to allow it.

But as for right now, it's not allowed, which is why i'm telling you to post a suggestion to have a new rule put in place that would allow people to acquire assets through proper stages via the courts. Which would then allow the SASP to seize an asset if it comes to the point they have to.
 
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