[Solved] A few questions

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Anonymous

#1
Hiya guys I'm new around here and was just interested in a few things:
1) How oftne is the court used? I see you have a forum for some sort of judicial system, but it looks pretty empty to me...
2) Can crimes stack up? For example if someone were to murder someone with a weapon, that's 60mins in jail+$50,000 fine, but if they then went and committed another crime such as Armed robbery which is another fine and another 60minutes in jail, would the person be sent to jail for 2hours or only jailed for their worst crime?
3) Can the LEO's use entrapment or not? This basically means is it against the law for LEO's to initiate any sort of illegal deal, even if it's for their government deptartment. If you still don't understand then read what is below, if you do understand then you can answer from here :)

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Entrapment is when an LEO of any agency or rank initiates a deal to arrest a suspect, but the suspect may have not started/done any sort of deal if they had not been approached first. For example if the police put out some sort of sublte advert offering to sell illegal weapons for cheap and someone approached them, then that person was "entrapped" by the police as that person may not have wanted to buy the weapons if they weren't advertised. This also works if an LEO approaches someone and asks to buy something off them- the person may not have/get the illegal product if they hadn't been approached and offered the money by the LEO.
Equally though if someone offers to sell a weapon, or asks an LEO(undercover or not) if they can buy a weapon, and the LEO then follows through with this deal, as long as they weren't initially prompted by the LEO then this is not entrapment and this is a perfectly legal sting operation.

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Thank you very much for your time!
 

Bogdan

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#2
Hello Mark. I will answer the questions as the way I think/know:
1) The Deparment of Justice (DoJ) is a new faction created for like 1 week. It pretty un-known so far and thats why civilians didn't use it, but FBI uses it everytime when we finish a case file on a person who broke the laws.
2) Ussualy if the person is cought after he did the 1st crime he is send to jail and fined. If he did a crime and he didn't get cought and later he has done another crime and got cought for it he will be jailed and fined for the crime he was cought. If the LEO's find out proofs that he's done the other crime also, his jail time and fine are increased.
3) Yes, LEO's are allowed to do that. We call them weapon/drug busts. It's done IRL also, so why wouldn't we be doing it IG?
 

Anonymous

#3
Thanks for the answers.

1) It's nice that it has been thought about and I'm sure it can be expanded upon greatly and will become a very usful faction/addition to the game.
2) You answered that they usually get caught after the first crime, well perhaps it will help if i give a better example. The person in question is caught dealing drugs by 2 LEO's who approach him, he then pulls out a weapon and begins shooting at the officers, killing one and injuring the other, he then runs into the road and stops a car, points a gun at the driver and screams at them to get out, he then gets in the car and drives off above the speed limit, soon to be blocked by a roadblock set up by the police.
In that short paragrpah I can count at least 8different offences:
Drug dealing
Brandishing a weapon in public (Possibly another count of having a weapon without a license if he doesnt have a license for it, or if it's illegal)
Attempted murder of an LEO
Murder of an LEO
Pointing a weapon at someone
Grand Theft Auto
Speeding
Evading an LEO

Added up these crimes come to over 3hours to say the least- would the individual be put in for all the crimes or would you single out the initial crime(drug dealing) and add it to the more serious crime(Murder of an LEO) or would crimes such as pointing the weapon at a civilian still be counted time-wise when the individual is put in jail?

3) You seem to not understand entrapment- in real life entrapment is illegal. Sting operations are when the suspect has initiated the proposal of the idea to commit a crime through buying/selling. Any member of a government agency is still prohibited to initiating an illegal trade and if found to do so it would be considered(in the eyes of the judicial system) that the LEO intended to buy the item for their own personal use- which is illegal therefore both the LEO(or if his commander says it was his idea him instead) and the suspect would both be jailed accordingly.

The reason this is illegal:
If a perfectly honest man has recently lost his job and is running low on cash, perhaps he can't afford to buy food or can't afford his rent is offered to buy some drugs/guns off someone he will- as a perfectly honest man- say no. But if someone approaches him and says "are you selling any drugs or guns, I'll pay this price" Then he see's a profit margin and would assume that the original dealer and this guy offering to buy would come together eventually, and by him doing the trade he would be removing some money from the black market and put it towards good needs- ie his personal survival.
He had no intention of becoming a gun/drug dealer to earn any money- but as the oppurtunity was put there he felt as if he was being forced to take it. Like leaving a bag of shopping just outside your front door near a starving homeless man, he knows his survival depends on food and that would be the easiest way for him to get that food, despite it being theft.

If a man comes up to an LEO/advertises to the public and asks them if they are selling/ buying guns/drugs then that person had already made the concious decision that they want to engage in illegal activity. And that is what a sting operation is for.
 

Bogdan

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#4
We are done with question #1. Now let's continue the discussions on questions #2 and #3.

2) Yes, for the example you gave, the suspect will be charged for all the crimes he did.

3) Now, this is a subject that can be discussed in lots of pages. The laws for this thing are different from country to country. The server is based on USA laws.

I'm gonna tell you how it's done here:
SASP/FBI ussualy adverts to buy some illegal weapons/drugs. The ad is for e.g: "Looking to buy some [A]frican [K]angaroos for $[47]00 each." If a seller comes up and we catch him selling illegal things we arrest him.
As you have noticed, we ARE NOT selling, we are BUYING. Wich is NOT illegal at all since we (FBI) have been approved by the Goverment that we can do this. We are not doing this by only one man. Ussualy the whole area is sorounded by lots of LEO's undercover as civilians.

And about the selling thing, the same thing. If the Gov. approves it, it's ok. IRL, FBI is one of the most respected law enforcements in USA and you get what I mean.

You just need to inform the Gov. about what are you doing just for the simple reason that no other law enforcement faction to disturb you. They will approve your action in 99% of the cases.

EDIT: The main ideea is that if you got approved by the Gov. (wich in our case we RP as we have been approved since we don't have a Gov.) you can do this. Even IRL they don't care if that person has money problems or the other things you said. Illegal is illegal and thats all.

EDIT2: We also follow suspicious ads that involve selling/buying guns/drugs.

We cover up both cases, wich in my opinion are both LEGAL.
 

Anonymous

#5
1- Covered
2- Covered
3- I would like to refer you to this article and its third paragraph:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-12-09/news/bs-md-hermann-fbi-entrapment-20101209_1_undercover-agents-federal-agents-entrapment

Here is the third paragraph:
In building criminal cases, authorities must be careful to ensure that they don't plant the idea of violence in a suspect's mind, but simply nurture thoughts that the suspect already harbors. Police cannot cajole a person into a crime that he wouldn't otherwise commit

A person may not have commited the offence if the LEO's didn't plant the original idea of buying/selling the illegal materials. That source is in regards to the USA, and the FBI in particular. As you say so yourself the FBI is highly respected, therefore top of the food chain and above the police or any sherriffs deptartments. Therefore surely this prives that IRL entrapment is illegal, therefore IC'ly if you want to remain as RP as possible then entrapment should be illegal in-game.


PS I think I should become an IC lawyer... lol :)
 

Bogdan

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#6
As I allready said, I am not living in USA and don't know the USA laws very good. That is why I've send the link to this topic to TJ who lives in USA and is in Police there. He will give you the right answer.

What I've writed above is based on what we do IG. I tought that what we were doing is legal IG and by the simple rule that we are following USA laws, is legal in RL also. But after reading that article, I don't know what to belive.

I hope TJ will clear my/our/the most part of the comunity's minds.
 

Anonymous

#7
In your edit 2(Which i only just read) That is not entrapment that is a sting and is perfectly legal any way you look at it.

I myself do not live in the USA, I live in England where entrapment is insanely illegal, in the USA it's slightly more lax as far as I am aware, but I have done some research and to my knowledge it is still illegal to do so.

I await TJ's response with baited breath. :)
 

Bogdan

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#8
Waiting his reply also, but we'll have to wait for some time since he has been called to the Department for a domestical argue/fight. I've told him via 2 ways (forum and TS) to check this topic.
 

Bogdan

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#10
No problem. Going to sleep now and maybe tommorow when I will wake up I'll see an answer for question #3.
 
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